Mining and poisoned water; correspondence on June 9, 2014

A.  June 7's CCIPRA update included a short piece about mining in the Sulphur Springs Valley by Commonwealth Minerals.  The piece mistakenly said that Commonwealth might use fracking.  Here's the piece:
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.  There's a lot of worry about mining, using fracking, by a Canadian company called Commonwealth Minerals, along US 191 in the Sulphur Springs Valley, near Sunsites, and in the Swisshelms near Elfrida.  There's an excellent article, with a good map, at
.     http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/news/article_82599ba6-cfe6-11e3-ac63-001a4bcf887a.html
.  I got an email from a friend a couple days ago noting, quote:
.  "there are private residential wells going dry because the farmers are draining the aquifers with 18" casings pumping billions of gallons per growing season.  I've emailed one of our AZ Legislators in the past to please 'level the playing field' when it comes to water allocations.  There is currently no recourse for the home owner other than to spend 25-50K to deepen their wells or to drill a new one.  It's not fair or reasonable for one party to consume enough of a given commodity to cause harm and damage to another type of consumer, especially when the second party consumes less than 5% of the total annual rate.  Kansas Settlement is next.  I know of 3 large ag wells that will do in excess of 1200 gpm that have been drilled within the last year.
.  "1ac ft = approx 357,000 gallons.  The average 3bd/2bth home will use less than that per year.  At 900 gallons per minute it takes one 160 acre alfalfa field 6.6 HOURS to consume 1ac ft of water.  Multiply that by the number of hours 'one pump' will run during one growing season.  Multiply that by the number of pumps running within an AZ Water Dept zoned aquifer and that number will shock you ....!"
.  That part of the email was balm to my eyes, because I'm worried by the growth in farm irrigation in the Sulphur Springs Valley.  But the email also argued in favor of allowing fracking because fracking uses so much less water than farming.  The letter said "the mine will use less water than one 160 acre alfalfa field."  I support my friend in arguing for saving water in the Sulphur Springs Valley, but if an alfalfa field uses a horrendous amount of water, I don't think the fact that fracking uses about the same amount of water is an argument for fracking.
.  In any event, I don't think we have to choose between saving water and opposing fracking.  I think we should work toward both goals, and I wish the state legislature would pass a law giving counties some control over agricultural water usage.
.  Speaking about fracking in general, I'm not a geologist, and I'm fully aware that correlation isn't causation, but I worry when I read articles
.     http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/04/frack-rattle-and-roll/
or
.     http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/05/07/Morgan-County-fracking-well-leaking-since-Sunday.html
or
.     http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/05/140502-scientists-warn-of-quake-risk-from-fracking-operations/
or
.     http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/01/05/some-states-confirm-water-pollution-from-drilling/4328859/
.  News features aren't scientific research, but I'd like to see fracking's potential consequences addressed by more than "fracking is no worse than farming."  I never heard of farming causing an earthquake.  And in the Sulphur Springs Valley, we're already having lots of earth subsidence; fracking certainly can't make that situation less common.  And certainly any company that wants to commit fracking in Cochise County is already aware of potential lawsuits, and might be willing to share its in-house evaluation of risks and consequences.
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B.  I got this email pointing out the mistake from Murray McClelland at 12:15 on Monday afternoon:
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.  It’s been a while since we’ve had the chance to communicate over a current issue facing Cochise County.  I’m a little bit grumpy over your last email that went out with your reference to “a friends email” regarding the Ag vs. the Commonwealth Mine water usage debate and your claim that I had made an argument in favor of allowing fracking. Where in the hell did you come up with that?  I never said it and I certainly did not even refer to fracking anywhere in my email.  Here are some key points of fact that you should be aware of;
.  1.  High Pressure Water or Steam Fracking is used to fracture rock formations deep within the earth (approx 5000’ +) for the purpose of extracting gas and oil.  The estimated depth of the completed Commonwealth Mine will be approximately 350’.  Not even close.
.  2.  I’m not aware of one single open pit gold, silver or copper mine in the US that utilizes fracking in their operations.  They don’t have to.  Metal is heavier than water, it sinks.  Gas and oil are lighter than water so therefore fracking works.
.     a.  I used to live within 5 miles of the world’s largest open pit mine in Salt Lake City, UT.
.        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bingham_Canyon_Mine
It’s over mile deep and covers 1900 acres. Not once was there a reported use of fracking or any ongoing health problems.  I raised my kids there.
.  3.  To confirm my assumptions, I just got off of the phone with Hall Stewart of the Commonwealth Mine.  “Absolutely not” was his reply when I put the question to him of Commonwealth using high pressure water or steam fracking in their operations.
.  Mike, I don’t appreciate your taking such a monumental leap, taking out of context what I actually did say in my email.  I would appreciate a retraction in your next email.  I’ll be looking forward to it.  I would never have done anything like that to you.  In the past you and I have been straight up with each other regarding questionable information.  If you recall correctly, you and I have emailed each other in the past to verify questionable information on statements of fact that both of us have questioned.
.  In closing let me say; the Commonwealth Mine has been in existence for over 100 years.  And now due to the increase in the value of gold and silver, it makes economic sense to reopen the mine.  100% of the operations, including mine tailings and the closed loop cyanide extraction system will be on private property. Not one square meter of Arizona State Land or Federal Land will be part of Commonwealth’s operations.   As all good citizens, we all demand that the mining operations will be safe and not hazardous to the surrounding environmental structures.  That is only good common sense.  This is another hot button issue in our area and it needs to be addressed with great care, using science and existing technology to assure everyone that all concerns have been correctly and prudently handled.  As President of the Pearce/Sunsites Chamber of Commerce I can say without reservation that the outstanding majority of our membership strongly favors Commonwealth reopening the mine, safely.  We welcome the jobs, we welcome the excitement of new business in our area.  For each new job Commonwealth brings to the table, the trickledown effect is about 3.5 to 1.  We will need more products and services to offer new residents while making sure that we can maintain a good quality of life in our area.
.  As a courtesy, I will wait 24 hours for your reply prior to disseminating this email to the public and the Wick Newspapers.
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C.  I answered Murray's email at 2:35 p.m., promising to fix the mistake.  Here's my answer:
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.  1, I always say that when I make a mistake of fact, I'll correct it; and I mean it.  I made a mistake in saying that an email -- I did not name you as the author -- "argued in favor of allowing fracking because fracking uses so much less water than farming."  Your email said that "the mine," not fracking, "will use much less water than one 160 acre alfalfa field."  You didn't say fracking.  I'll put a correction in my next update.
.  2, You say you would never have done anything like that to me -- as if you think I acted intentionally.  Your implication is incorrect.  Until I received your email this afternoon, I thought we were friends -- as I said in the update you object to -- and I was hoping to have a good discussion about the issue with you.  I suppose we still could.
.  3, My writeup began by citing the online news story at
.     http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/news/article_82599ba6-cfe6-11e3-ac63-001a4bcf887a.html
which mentions citizen concerns about water being poisoned by other means, but does not mention fracking.  Reading that article would be a corrective to my mistake.
.  4, My next update will report more fully on that story.  For instance, citizen comments to the story include "Dirty gold mining has ravaged landscapes, contaminated ecosystems with toxic waste and resulted in widespread water pollution.... we already have a very limited water supply that is only continuing to decrease year after year, and this mine will surely make things worse.... the damage has already begun.  Pearce Elementary School has reported that they now have arsenic in their drinking water since this Canadian company has started tearing up the hill and there are also reports of homes in the immediate area having arsenic in their water as well" and "Having watched a foreign mining company destroy mountains in Montana ... and then file bankruptcy as soon as the ore petered out and sticking the tax payers with the clean up bill, I am inclined to oppose this mine."
.  5, Your closing paragraph argues that "it makes economic sense to reopen the mine.  100% of the operations, including mine tailings and the closed loop cyanide extraction system[,] will be on private property....  As President of the Pearce/Sunsites Chamber of Commerce I can say without reservation that the outstanding majority of our membership strongly favors Commonwealth reopening the mine, safely.  We welcome the jobs, we welcome the excitement of new business in our area.  For each new job Commonwealth brings to the table, the trickledown effect is about 3.5 to 1.  We will need more products and services to offer new residents while making sure that we can maintain a good quality of life in our area."  I understand your hopes for more local jobs and real estate sales, but I also think that there may be more balance needed in choosing between jobs and home sales, and the possibility of poison spreading into a community's water supply.
.  6, Your email concludes "As a courtesy, I will wait 24 hours for your reply prior to disseminating this email to the public and the Wick Newspapers."  Murray, that almost sounds like a threat -- as if anyone should be afraid of admitting a mistake.  If the people you hang out with are scared that their mistakes  might be revealed, you need to hang out with better people.  If you decide to disseminate anything before you & I get straight on this, please send me a copy.
END QUOTE

D, Murray replied at 6:04 p.m. in a message which uses some fancy typography; I believe it comes through okay in what follows.  The format is, quoting my writeup, then adding his comment after his name in brackets.  However, it can be difficult to figure out when his comment stops and my original text resumes.
START QUOTE
.  1, I always say that when I make a mistake of fact, I'll correct it; and I mean it.  I made a mistake in saying that an email -- I did not name you as the author -- "argued in favor of allowing fracking because fracking uses so much less water than farming."  Your email said that "the mine," not fracking, "will use much less water than one 160 acre alfalfa field."  You didn't say fracking.  I'll put a correction in my next update.[Murray J. McClelland] Thank You…
.  2, You say you would never have done anything like that to me -- as if you think I acted intentionally.  [Murray J. McClelland] I did not think you acted intentionally. What I thought was that the information and evidence you relied upon was not based on science and firsthand experience.  That’s why I said that in the past you and I have been able to question information that is not based on facts.  Your implication is incorrect. [Murray J. McClelland] It was not an implication.  It was a disappointment on my part. Until I received your email this afternoon, I thought we were friends [Murray J. McClelland]  we remain friends.  Even friends have an occasional disagreement. However, as a lawyer you know the dangers of hearsay and my disappointment arises from you not giving me the chance to respond to your concerns prior to alluding in your email that I was making an argument for fracking.  That's what I would never do under any circumstance..-- as I said in the update you object to -- and I was hoping to have a good discussion about the issue with you.  [Murray J. McClelland] I would still like to have that discussion. I suppose we still could.
.  3, My writeup began by citing the online news story at
.     http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/news/article_82599ba6-cfe6-11e3-ac63-001a4bcf887a.html
which mentions citizen concerns about water being poisoned by other means, but does not mention fracking.  Reading that article would be a corrective to my mistake.
.  4, My next update will report more fully on that story.  For instance, citizen comments to the story include "Dirty gold mining has ravaged landscapes, contaminated ecosystems with toxic waste and resulted in widespread water pollution.... [Murray J. McClelland] Where..?  When?  Have you already determined that the information presented is factual and reliable?  Go to www.CommonwealthMine.org if you want to see complete and careless mudslinging. Not based on facts, not based on science just a coward who refuses to be indentified spouting venom. we already have a very limited water supply that is only continuing to decrease year after year, and this mine will surely make things worse.... the damage has already begun. [Murray J. McClelland] Evidence?  Pearce Elementary School has reported that they now have arsenic in their drinking water[Murray J. McClelland]  Commonwealth has done nothing during their preliminary due diligence to increase arsenic levels. The municipal water system in Sunsites, Clear Springs Utility Co. issued a warning to property owners several years ago regarding increasing arsenic levels.  Arsenic is indigenous to this area.  We have it in low levels in our well water.  You probably have it also. since this Canadian company has started tearing up the hill [Murray J. McClelland] Really?  They own it, outright. Again, it has been a mine for over 100 years, it will always be a mine.  There was a great article in the AZ Sunday paper about some families that bought homes close to the Freeport Mc Moran mine west of us.  The tailings pile is growing at 75' per year and under current licensing, will keep going that way for another 70 years. However, now that the horse is out of the barn, they're complaining that it blocks their view of the sunsets.  OMG.. and there are also reports of homes in the immediate area having arsenic in their water as well" and "Having watched a foreign mining company destroy mountains in Montana ...[Murray J. McClelland] Don't buy a home next to a mine if you don't want to someday realize that you made a bad choice.   and then file bankruptcy as soon as the ore petered out and sticking the tax payers with the cleanup bill, [Murray J. McClelland] I'm familiar with that story, but not familiar enough to argue the facts concerning the BK and the cleanup costs.  I am inclined to oppose this mine."
.  5, Your closing paragraph argues that "it makes economic sense to reopen the mine.  100% of the operations, including mine tailings and the closed loop cyanide extraction system[,] will be on private property....  As President of the Pearce/Sunsites Chamber of Commerce I can say without reservation that the outstanding majority of our membership strongly favors Commonwealth reopening the mine, safely.  We welcome the jobs, we welcome the excitement of new business in our area.  For each new job Commonwealth brings to the table, the trickledown effect is about 3.5 to 1.  We will need more products and services to offer new residents while making sure that we can maintain a good quality of life in our area.[Murray J. McClelland] You neglected to add; " As all good citizens, we all demand that the mining operations will be safe and not hazardous to the surrounding environmental structures.  That is only good common sense." I understand your hopes for more local jobs and real estate sales, but I also think that there may be more balance needed in choosing between jobs and home sales, and the possibility of poison spreading into a community's water supply.[Murray J. McClelland]  If anyone can convince me that that Commonwealth would be turning the Pearce/Sunsites area into Three Mile Island by allowing the mine to operate, I'll be the first one to shop for a great litigator to take them on. Our record speaks for itself.  I'm including you, Linda and myself in that comment.
 .  6, Your email concludes "As a courtesy, I will wait 24 hours for your reply prior to disseminating this email to the public and the Wick Newspapers."  Murray, that almost sounds like a threat[Murray J. McClelland]  not a threat, I apologize for any misleading language.  I was very upset at first, but now I can see the wisdom in continuing our discussion with level heads.  I'm sure Hall Stewart, who is as American as you and I are, would be happy to participate in putting together the hard scientific facts and also participate in our discussion.  I want Hall to tell you why Commonwealth is a Canadian company.  I never guessed it, but it sure made sense to me after he explained it to me.   -- as if anyone should be afraid of admitting a mistake. [Murray J. McClelland] I'm not following you on that one. If the people you hang out with are scared that their mistakes  might be revealed, you need to hang out with better people. [Murray J. McClelland] That was uncalled for.  I will stand behind my position until such time that more current, factual information and science becomes available[Murray J. McClelland]  convinces me otherwise. If you decide to disseminate anything before you & I get straight on this, please send me a copy.[Murray J. McClelland]  I always have and I believe after you visit www.CommonwealthMine.org you'll see some of my points clearly..
.  The Pearce/Sunsites Chamber of Commerce is sponsoring a community meeting, Tuesday, July 22, 2014 at the Sunsites Community Center where Hall Stewart will present to our citizens factual, scientifically based information that can be questioned, analyzed and agreed or disagreed upon.  Hope you can make it, we would love to have you there.  I'm sure Carol Broeder and possibly Shar from the SVH will be there.  Just like old times….

END QUOTE


E.  I answered the next morning at 9:52 a.m.:

My replies to your comments, right after your comments.  I prepped this for an hour and a half or so, & just don't have time to fine-groom it before sending.  I trust I haven't committed any unintentional offense.  M.

On 6/9/2014 6:04 PM, Murray J. McClelland wrote:

From: Mike Jackson [mailto:mpj@vtc.net]
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 2:36 PM
To: Murray J. McClelland
Cc: Linda Nunez
Subject: Re: FW: Citizens resisting bad gummint, good employees fleeing gummint

 

Murray:  In answer to your email of 12:15 this afternoon (attached below):

1, I always say that when I make a mistake of fact, I'll correct it; and I mean it.  I made a mistake in saying that an email -- I did not name you as the author -- "argued in favor of allowing fracking because fracking uses so much less water than farming."  Your email said that "the mine," not fracking, "will use much less water than one 160 acre alfalfa field."  You didn't say fracking.  I'll put a correction in my next update.[Murray J. McClelland] Thank You…

MPJ:  Thanks not necessary.  I don't make corrections to errors for personal reasons.

2, You say you would never have done anything like that to me -- as if you think I acted intentionally.  [Murray J. McClelland] I did not think you acted intentionally. What I thought was that the information and evidence you relied upon was not based on science and firsthand experience.  That’s why I said that in the past you and I have been able to question information that is not based on facts.  Your implication is incorrect. [Murray J. McClelland] It was not an implication.  It was a disappointment on my part. Until I received your email this afternoon, I thought we were friends [Murray J. McClelland]  we remain friends.  Even friends have an occasional disagreement. However, as a lawyer you know the dangers of hearsay and my disappointment arises from you not giving me the chance to respond to your concerns prior to alluding in your email that I was making an argument for fracking.  That's what I would never do under any circumstance..-- as I said in the update you object to -- and I was hoping to have a good discussion about the issue with you.  [Murray J. McClelland] I would still like to have that discussion. I suppose we still could.

MPJ:  You're simultaneously accepting that my mistake wasn't intentional, and arguing as if I intentionally made a bad argument.  That's too much for one paragraph.

3, My writeup began by citing the online news story at
http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/news/article_82599ba6-cfe6-11e3-ac63-001a4bcf887a.html
which mentions citizen concerns about water being poisoned by other means, but does not mention fracking.  Reading that article would be a corrective to my mistake.

MPJ:  I'm surprised you don't have anything to say about my sending people to an article that would not support my reference to fracking -- something I wouldn't have done if I intended my reference to fracking.

4, My next update will report more fully on that story.  For instance, citizen comments to the story include "Dirty gold mining has ravaged landscapes, contaminated ecosystems with toxic waste and resulted in widespread water pollution.... [Murray J. McClelland] Where..?  When?  Have you already determined that the information presented is factual and reliable?

MPJ:  Pollution caused by acid gold mining can't seriously be doubted, Murray.  Google the search terms --  gold mining acid pollution  -- for hundreds of thousands of hits on the subject.  At this point, you can claim that all of those hits are invalid, or you can produce some studies that contradict them?

Go to www.CommonwealthMine.org if you want to see complete and careless mudslinging. Not based on facts, not based on science just a coward who refuses to be indentified spouting venom.

MPJ:  Based on your recommendation, I went to that site, and I didn't find "complete and careless mudslinging," I found lots of reporting based on legal documents and mining history.  There are many insults toward the proposed mine, and there's not meticulous documentation for every statement made, but that doesn't justify discounting the entire site.  As to a "coward who refuses to be identified," I couldn't find the site's owner by using whois.com, but the fact that a person prefers anonymity doesn't make the person a coward.  For instance, Cochise County employees have sometimes given me information on terms of anonymity, but that didn't make them cowards, it only meant that they wished to keep their jobs.  Another example:  every spy must remain anonymous as such; does that make them all cowards?  I think, Murray, that your own argument has verged into mudslinging here.

we already have a very limited water supply that is only continuing to decrease year after year, and this mine will surely make things worse.... the damage has already begun. [Murray J. McClelland] Evidence?  Pearce Elementary School has reported that they now have arsenic in their drinking water[Murray J. McClelland]  Commonwealth has done nothing during their preliminary due diligence to increase arsenic levels. The municipal water system in Sunsites, Clear Springs Utility Co. issued a warning to property owners several years ago regarding increasing arsenic levels.  Arsenic is indigenous to this area.  We have it in low levels in our well water.  You probably have it also.

MPJ:  Murray, I'm certain, without needing any verification, that there are low levels of arsenic in my drinking water, along with radioactive materials and other noxious substances.  But the natural existence of some small amount isn't an excuse for adding more.  The argument that "arsenic is indigenous" completely bypasses the real question:  how much arsenic will be added?

since this Canadian company has started tearing up the hill [Murray J. McClelland] Really?  They own it, outright. Again, it has been a mine for over 100 years, it will always be a mine.  There was a great article in the AZ Sunday paper about some families that bought homes close to the Freeport Mc Moran mine west of us.  The tailings pile is growing at 75' per year and under current licensing, will keep going that way for another 70 years. However, now that the horse is out of the barn, they're complaining that it blocks their view of the sunsets.  OMG..

MPJ:  Are you arguing that the owner of the hill can do anything with it, including poisoning the water supply for many miles around?  If you aren't arguing that, what precisely are you arguing?  As to the newspaper article, I expect you mean this one:
http://azstarnet.com/business/local/how-high-will-freeport-s-tailings-climb/article_36c86c50-593c-50bc-a72b-de990c1f81fd.html
You're mistaken when you say "The tailings pile is growing at 75' per year;" what the article actually says is "The tailings from Freeport McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc.’s Sierrita copper mine have grown 8 feet annually ...."  And the point of the article is not "families" that are complaining about the height of the pile; the article only quotes one family that is seriously concerned.  Here's how that part of the article goes:   "Connie Creed said she had her heart set on watching the sun go down every night.  'Now, the tailings are getting higher and I can’t see the sunsets at all,' she said.  'I hate it.  I wish we hadn't bought this house.'  Yet many other Green Valley residents have accepted the tailings because they existed when they moved into their homes, and they knew that the tailings' benches of soil, rock and trees would keep rising.  The mine has operated under several owners since 1959, and Freeport employs 1,200 people there.  The question now -- more than 40 years after the tailings impoundment was built -- is how much higher will it go?"  So you've taken one family unhappy with an 8' rise per year, and turned it into a number of families that are complaining about a 75' rise per year -- as if to imply that those families are whiners, and people in Pearce have much less to complain about.  That's a bad rhetorical device you're using.

and there are also reports of homes in the immediate area having arsenic in their water as well" and "Having watched a foreign mining company destroy mountains in Montana ...[Murray J. McClelland] Don't buy a home next to a mine if you don't want to someday realize that you made a bad choice.  

MPJ:  It could be argued in this case, Murray, that the mine has been inactive, and the new operations came to local residents.

and then file bankruptcy as soon as the ore petered out and sticking the tax payers with the cleanup bill, [Murray J. McClelland] I'm familiar with that story, but not familiar enough to argue the facts concerning the BK and the cleanup costs.

MPJ:  Murray, don't you feel it's your duty to make yourself familiar enough with the facts?  If you choose to remain ignorant of a major point made by the opposition, then you do give up the right to contest that point.

I am inclined to oppose this mine."

5, Your closing paragraph argues that "it makes economic sense to reopen the mine.  100% of the operations, including mine tailings and the closed loop cyanide extraction system[,] will be on private property....  As President of the Pearce/Sunsites Chamber of Commerce I can say without reservation that the outstanding majority of our membership strongly favors Commonwealth reopening the mine, safely.  We welcome the jobs, we welcome the excitement of new business in our area.  For each new job Commonwealth brings to the table, the trickledown effect is about 3.5 to 1.  We will need more products and services to offer new residents while making sure that we can maintain a good quality of life in our area.

MPJ:  let's clarify here:  I put that last phrase into my email; it appears to be emphasized in your letter by clerical error, probably when you added your tag to the following comment:

[Murray J. McClelland] You neglected to add; " As all good citizens, we all demand that the mining operations will be safe and not hazardous to the surrounding environmental structures.  That is only good common sense."

MPJ:  I didn't neglect to add anything, Murray; I chose to quoted only part of your letter, in my editorial judgment.  If you think you can find a sinister purpose in the omission of that phrase, go ahead and try; but I found the phrase to be insubstantial PR eyewash, and probably I did you a favor by letting it sink.

 I understand your hopes for more local jobs and real estate sales, but I also think that there may be more balance needed in choosing between jobs and home sales, and the possibility of poison spreading into a community's water supply.[Murray J. McClelland]  If anyone can convince me that that Commonwealth would be turning the Pearce/Sunsites area into Three Mile Island by allowing the mine to operate, I'll be the first one to shop for a great litigator to take them on. Our record speaks for itself.  I'm including you, Linda and myself in that comment.

MPJ:  That's another rhetorical device that fails, Murray.  Comparing local peoples' dislike for excess arsenic to Three Mile Island's nuclear meltdown is way overblown, and counterproductive.  I don't think you can convince people by mocking their reasonable concerns and fears.  And I do believe that at some point you are going to have to explain more fully your feelings for local jobs and real estate sales.  During the golf tax fuss, I think many people learned how much real estate you and Linda owned; some of those people may well be tempted to argue that you favor the mine because it will lead to home sales.  If you have a response to this ad hominem attack, you might bounce it off me for practice.

 6, Your email concludes "As a courtesy, I will wait 24 hours for your reply prior to disseminating this email to the public and the Wick Newspapers."  Murray, that almost sounds like a threat[Murray J. McClelland]  not a threat, I apologize for any misleading language.

MPJ:  Well, yes, it was a threat, Murray.  You clearly thought I would act out of fear of having my email, or yours, published.  You should know that I've already posted all of our correspondence.

I was very upset at first, but now I can see the wisdom in continuing our discussion with level heads.  I'm sure Hall Stewart, who is as American as you and I are, would be happy to participate in putting together the hard scientific facts and also participate in our discussion.  I want Hall to tell you why Commonwealth is a Canadian company.  I never guessed it, but it sure made sense to me after he explained it to me.   --

MPJ:  I see that the Willcox Range News has posted a new letter from Stewart in which he discusses this kind of thing.  See
http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/opinion/editorials/article_d1a82aae-e5fa-11e3-a973-001a4bcf887a.html
Interestingly, his letter includes "I made a comment to the Willcox Range News that has drawn considerable criticism and for this I apologize."  I'm glad to see that Stewart and I belong to the same school about acknowledging mistakes.

as if anyone should be afraid of admitting a mistake. [Murray J. McClelland] I'm not following you on that one. If the people you hang out with are scared that their mistakes  might be revealed, you need to hang out with better people. [Murray J. McClelland] That was uncalled for.  I will stand behind my position until such time that more current, factual information and science becomes available.

MPJ:  Uncalled for?  I think it's a very useful reflection for you, Murray.  People who won't admit making mistakes are hard to argue facts & logic with.  If  you spend much time refusing to admit mistakes, you are wasting energy.  I mentioned above that Stewart admitted his mistake; imagine how distorted the conversation would become if he refused to.

If you decide to disseminate anything before you & I get straight on this, please send me a copy.[Murray J. McClelland]  I always have and I believe after you visit www.CommonwealthMine.org you'll see some of my points clearly..

            The Pearce/Sunsites Chamber of Commerce is sponsoring a community meeting, Tuesday, July 22, 2014 at the Sunsites Community Center where Hall Stewart will present to our citizens factual, scientifically based information that can be questioned, analyzed and agreed or disagreed upon.  Hope you can make it, we would love to have you there.  I'm sure Carol Broeder and possibly Shar from the SVH will be there.  Just like old times….

MPJ:  I will publicize this meeting, thanks for the tip.

I look forward to continuing our discussion.
Regards,
Murray


F.  Murray promised to reply, but he never did.